Scenes Advancing Prematurely in Session View

Ableton

rhincephalon

about 7 years ago (edited)

Hi all, I recently purchased a multitrack of Chris Tomlin's song "Indescribable". I am trying to copy all the sections of the song from Ableton's arrangement view into session view in order to then copy the whole tune (broken into sections) into my master session template where I keep all my multitracks. The problem is that once I copy the clips into session view and try and play them back, they advance prematurely to the next scene. Ableton's metronome reads 12/4 @ 180 bpm. The time signature associated with each clip says 4/4. I've tried changing them to all match each other and this did not solve the problem. I also tried changing everything to 1/1 and this did not fix it either. I don't know what else to try. I'm hoping someone can help me figure this out. I can't really use the tune effectively in a worship service until I can get it into my master session file - so until then it's just wasted money spent. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
rhincephalon

about 7 years ago

Here's a screen shot if that helps...

Indescribable_2.png

mrdister

about 7 years ago

Off the top of my head, I would say the song "Indescribable" is in 6/8 so your scenes and master song meter should be 6/8 and not 4/4 or 12/4.
mrdister

about 7 years ago

I said scenes above, but in your case make sure that your CLIPS are all 6/8 as well as the master meter in the top left.
rhincephalon

about 7 years ago

Thank you Kyle for your help... the short answer is that changing to 6/8 did improve things... if you want more details keep reading. I'll warn you ahead of time that this might get a little confusing... I've actually purchased two different commercially produced multitracks for "Indescribable". The screen shot above was from a covered version. The other version I have are the original stems from Tomlin's "Arriving" album. I have two copies because the originals were doing the premature scene advancement thing and so I just bought another version hoping the problem would go away - but it didn't! As I said above, I tried your suggestion of changing all the time signatures to 6/8. On the covered stems it didn't work, but I then tried it on the originals and it did work - sort of... It's much better, but there is now a small blip/hiccup/feedback when Ableton advances to the next scene. It's very brief, and it would probably be lost in the mix live, but it still really annoys me. I've had this problem before with other tunes and have never been able to figure out why it happens or how to fix it. Interestingly, the Ableton file of the original stems opens up in 6/4 @ 180 bpm. Not sure why none of them are just in 6/8. With the original stems, when I copy the them into session view and then change the time signature to 6/8, the follow action boxes within the launch box read 1 measure, 2 BEATS, and 0 sixteenths. When I then change the measure box to the correct number, the beats field changes to 0. I wonder if this is the problem - but keeping it at 2 beats makes things worse. This normally does not happen when I chop up other tunes into their sections. Usually the follow actions boxes will read 1 measure, 0 beats, and 0 sixteenths after being pasted into session view. FYI - In this original version, I have also warped the melodic tracks and transposed them down two semitones to the key of G using the "Complex Pro Warp" mode. A is still too high for my voice. Not sure if this might play a role. One final thing, in other multitracks that are in different time signatures such as 6/8, the clips' time signatures boxes always read 4/4 (as this is the default) - but I've never had to change them to 6/8 to get the scenes to advance correctly. So, for the most part my problem is solved, but if any one has any thoughts on these other issues I'd love to hear them.
rhincephalon

about 7 years ago

Here's another screen shot that shows what the clips look like pasted into session view with the beats field reading 2 instead of 0.

Screen_Shot_2.png

mrdister

about 7 years ago

Is there a reason that your global quantization in the top left is set to 4 bars? Also, did you get the tracks you're using in MP3 format? If so, there has always been a little silence buffer at the very start that ends up throwing the track off a tiny bit from the actual beat. MP3's use this little buffer that ends up making it difficult to line up with the beat. Also, if you are using Live 9 that has Max4Live built in, you should get the Follow device from Istotonik Studios so that you don't have to rely on the Ableton follow settings, which are super limited and frustrating to work with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS6F_W-U8lE
rhincephalon

about 7 years ago

Thanks again Kyle for your recommendations. The only reason the global quantization is set to 4 bars is because that was the file's default and I didn't change it. Would you recommend something else? I think every multitrack file I've ever used defaults to 4 bars. It's not a setting I ever mess with. I bought mp4 files for this particular project rather than .wavs. The song plays in time now, it just has those little blips when the scene advances - almost sounds like clipping but it only occurs when it changes scenes. Do you think the file format is the issue? I'm surprised no one else has encountered this same problem because, though it doesn't happen all the time to me, it has definitely happened before and I've just had to live with it... I'm using Live 9 standard, not Live 9 Suite.
mrdister

about 7 years ago

Ah I think I see the issue. I don't believe follow actions use the quantization so you are not actually changing scenes. You are just launching a new clip as soon as the old is done. That's why the 4 bars thing isn't affecting anything. Normally you would have it set to 1 bar or 1 beat. It looks like you can purchase M4L separately. That would let you use the Follow device by Isotonik, which DOES actually launch a new scene. https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/setting-max-live-9/
rhincephalon

about 7 years ago

I understand what you are saying regarding clip advancement vs. scene advancement. I guess I was using the wrong terminology - but I'm not sure I understand what the difference is or why/how it matters. I watched the video and using M4L and similarly I'm not sure I understand the benefit of doing it this way - other than it saves you from having to manually type it all the measures for advancement. Would it improve the sound quality?
mrdister

about 7 years ago

It would not improve sound quality. The benefit besides typing in the numbers is that when you launch a clip, you can also set a new bpm or time signature. It also lets you start/stop the song at any point with one button instead of navigating to the scene and then relaunching.